The effects of misinformation last far beyond the internet’s attention span. Over time and repetition, misinformation can lead to massive misunderstandings about solutions to climate change, the effectiveness of vaccines and the cures and causes of diseases like Covid-19. It can endanger communities in times of catastrophic events and incite hatred of groups being “othered.” It can also end up informing policies that affect millions of people.
For example, President Donald Trump’s pick for health and human services secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., has spread debunked conspiracy theories about health for years. He has claimed the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine causes autism (tied to a 1998 study that was discredited) and alleged that fluoride is an “industrial waste” that causes bone cancer, neurodevelopmental disorders and thyroid disease (tied to a 1978 study that was also discredited). While he tried to backtrack on his anti-vaccine stances during his confirmation hearing on Wednesday, Kennedy has previously said he plans to examine vaccine safety, advise against putting fluoride in public water systems and restrict food additives if confirmed.
But RFK, Jr. isn’t the only member of President Trump’s inner circle to embrace misinformation and conspiracy theories that were once relegated to the dark corners of the internet. Elon Musk, the head of Trump’s Department of Government Efficiency, regularly boosts anti-immigration and voter fraud misinformation on the platform he owns, X. When asked by CNBC last year if some of his tweets support conspiracy theories, he said, “Yes, but I mean honestly, you know, so many conspiracy theories have turned out to be true” and cited his right to freedom of speech.
In recent years, misinformation has also been known to spread in times of natural disasters. After wildfires devastated Maui in 2023 and soon after fires destroyed thousands of homes in LA this month, misinformation spread online that “energy weapons” were the cause — a conspiracy theory that falsely claims governments or secret organizations use lasers to ignite wildfires. During Hurricane Milton in October, false claims about relief efforts led to confusion and anger among survivors.
To understand how to sort through misinformation, how to give crucial context to Trump’s policies and when journalists should inform the public about conspiracy theories, I spoke with NBC senior reporter Brandy Zadrozny, who covers how the internet shapes U.S. culture and politics. Our conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.
You cover how the spread of false information online affects our everyday lives. Do you begin your day mining the depths of the internet?
Zadrozny: An anthropologist in the ‘70s coined the term “deep hanging out.” And that is definitely what I do. I listen all day to podcasts: Steve Bannon’s podcast, Charlie Kirk’s podcast, the Rumble guys. I listen to those things pretty constantly. And then I am a member of about 100 or so Facebook groups and Telegram channels that I know are awash in conspiracy theories — specifically anti-vaccine conspiracy theories, because that is what I’ve been covering for 10 years. So I always have my finger on the pulse of what people are saying in these groups.
Usually and thankfully, we don’t write stories on every wild thing that might be said in these spaces. It has to reach a certain level. When someone in the health unit asks, “Are you hearing that these vaccines might cause infertility?” I can say, “Yes, I’m hearing that a lot. Here’s what they’re saying,” and give the hive mind in that corner of the world.
When does a wild conspiracy become a story? What should reporters look for before covering it?
Zadrozny: There are lots of different ways that people define this, and one is the idea of a tipping point. There’s this invisible scale, and on it, there are the benefits of telling the story versus not telling the story. And sometimes telling a story can give attention to small niche groups whose whole goal is to get attention.
For example, when a white nationalist group flyers a community, if the local news says, “The Nazis are papering our community with these pamphlets,” that is a win for the group. They celebrate it in their channels as “The news covered us.” That is attention.
We generally know, as an industry, not to do that and not give them that attention. If I’m listening to a group of French people say Ivermectin is the real cure for COVID, I’m not going to write a story about some people on the internet taking Ivermectin for its nonintended purposes until it becomes something where a very prominent person says it. Or people are making a lot of money off of it, or the aspect of warning the public becomes the greater trade-off. That’s the tipping point for me.
What can the dark corners of the internet explain about the current culture and political climate? How has it evolved over the years?
Zadrozny: I don’t believe there are any dark corners of the internet anymore. Look at someone like the deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, who has long been known to be guided by a lot of the white-nationalist thinking and writings that were once traded on those dark corners of the internet. And now they’re just out in the open.
I think it’s helpful to understand that the way extremists have often organized historically was online, and that’s changed recently. Let’s say we’re just talking about white-nationalist extremism. A lot of what we saw during the growth of the alt-right in 2016 was very, very open white nationalists organizing just out in the open, unapologetically. No masks at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in 2017, holding tiki torches and saying, “Jews will not replace us.” It was just very bold.
But then after that, think about Jan. 6 — the rioters who stormed the Capitol faced legal repercussions. They were sued in state courts. They lost their jobs. It was not a good thing to be in public anymore. And they went underground and back online.
Reporters had to monitor them in online spaces. Lately, we’ve been seeing a lot more organizing. You can do the math on what caused them to be emboldened, restricted and then emboldened again. But we’re seeing that happen right now.
How can journalists cover extremist movements without sensationalizing them?
Zadrozny: There is a way to cover these movements and their shenanigans that highlights the harms without being Chicken Little and that gives a voice to their victims. A lot of good journalism came out on NBC about misinformation on Haitian immigrants eating dogs and cats in Ohio — reporters going there, talking with refugee groups, finding people who were afraid to leave their houses and send their children to school. The misinformation had some real important harms.
There’s a formula that goes into each of these stories, and that’s the facts. What’s the true story? Why are we all seeing this fake story? Who’s harmed and who’s profiting? And if you can tell that story, that’s a clear-eyed way to look at this large beat.
What online communities and narratives do you believe need more media attention or deserve more coverage?
Zadrozny: The wellness space generally is an untapped beat. I think it’s still seen as a “lady issue” and people don’t treat it like the billion-dollar industry that it is, preying on people’s fears and health emergencies to sell them cures and fixes to all of their ails. It’s an incredibly powerful and untapped mine of stories about people looking for something and being hoodwinked at every single turn. Wellness is just a gold mine for stories that could have real impact.
I did this story about Black Oxygen Organics in 2021. It was dirt that people were bathing in and it cost $100 for a couple of ounces. It was being sold as a cure for Covid and everything else, but it was just a huge scam. People were falling for it for good reasons that made a lot of sense. We don’t cover that kind of thing enough, and I hope that people are going to cover it more.
I also want to see more coverage of state extremist groups and state militias at the border, especially right now, as Trump promises mass deportations. In places like Oregon and Idaho, how are people going to react locally to this grand fear and promise of the expelling of their migrant neighbors? There are a lot of stories to tell there, and the local stories might be the most important ones.
What are some best practices for journalists when it comes to covering conspiracy theories, rumors and speculation, especially when prominent politicians endorse them?
Zadrozny: Don’t be tempted to write these beliefs off as silly, stupid, crazy, or the people who believe them to be any of those things. Look no further than “pizzagate.” It came with real political power, like Marjorie Taylor Green, who rode the wave of QAnon conspiracy theorizing straight to the House of Representatives. It also came at a real cost. I lost count of the number of violent incidents that came from that conspiracy theory alone.
We need to watch out for fact-checky words like “baseless” or “unfounded.” Instead of saying something is “baseless,” I think it’s better to tell the story of that conspiracy theory and where it came from. Why do people think it makes sense and why doesn’t it? People like reading that. Even people who believe this stuff, they’re still interested if you have facts.
How do you go about protecting your mental health when spending so much time in these dark corners of the internet?
Zadrozny: In 2019, I was watching the shooting at the New Zealand mosque. I was with my kids, making dinner because kids need dinner, whether something’s happening at work or not. I could hear my kids out of one ear, and then I had my earbud in the other, hearing and watching this mass shooting happen because it’s being streamed. After it ended, I had a realization that the moment was a blurring of the compartmentalization of my life, and I can’t ever do that again.
Bellingcat, a Netherlands-based investigative journalism group, had a really great primer where the main gist was, when you do this work, you need to do it in a space that you’re saying, “This is for this work. And when I’m done with this work, when I’m done looking at these terrible videos, I’m gonna leave and do something else in the space that is my life. Because this is not happening to me. I’m a witness to it, and that’s an important job, but it’s not happening to me.”
Compartmentalization is incredibly important, and now, my personal time is personal. I used to work all the time. You could always get me on Slack, email me or text. And now you actually can’t. I’ll say, “I’m not working this weekend.” I will miss stories, and that’s what will have to be, because my brain matters.
